S. flava var. ornata 'Improved Black Veins'

[calen]

Oct 14, 2018 14:20:45 GMT -5 clonem said:

I would like some input on what the level of interest is among the growers out there, for the original, non-improved flava black vein clones. I have three — SFL05A, clone D, and wavy lid. They do fine here, although they don't color up as well as they could because I get 7-8 hours of sun only.

I recommend to the average grower on this forum that they stick with one of the 'improved' black vein types. I will be keeping a maximum of two each of my original clone variants due to lack of space.

Do any of the breeders on this forum still desire some of these original, slow-to-reproduce clones, or should I just put them up for sale when I have extra? I look forward to comments on these clones for as long as they come in. Again, I recommend to the average grower to sticking with the improved black vein types, but will sell if it becomes necessary.

First off, great post Mike. There is so much history with these plants and I really appreciate you taking the time to share it here in such detail.
As for the desirability of the original clones, they are absolutely desirable, precious even. If you sell your mother plants, please sell them to me! I adore the IBV plants and they are a notable success in Sarracenia species breeding. It has occurred to me over the last few years however that they might displace the original clones in cultivation due to their superior vigor, and I think this would be a shame. It’s not totally black (veined) and white though. Many of the original BV clones are soooo slow and weak that there is little opportunity to propagate them at all and many growers fail with them. That isn’t a winning situation as far as keeping these genetics alive, therefore the whole IBV project is a good solution to perpetuating these genes even if it dilutes them at the same time. As Mike talked about, further back-crossing can increase the percentage of original genetics while maintaining strength in the offspring. While the first release IBV cross was 25% ornata Gulf Coast, in a couple generations that can be reduced to a negligible component. To me, that’s worth the compromise in “purity.”
That said, I want to emphasize that the original clones are totally badass and everyone who grows them should make every effort to have them thrive and should seek to propagate them. I have just two of the original clones, but I sing to them, give them leaf rubs and extra bug snacks and they actually grow pretty darn well and flower every year (I have two of the stronger clones, since those are the ones that have been distributed in the first place).

Original Gangster Black Veins cultivation pro tip #1: they are shorter, so make sure they aren’t getting shaded by surrounding plants. Put them out in an open spot. Getting overtopped by surrounding plants also means they will catch fewer bugs, which isn’t good for an anemic weakling gangster of a plant. Pro tip #2: feed the suckas! I find that supplemental feeding makes a significant difference in the growth rate on these plants. Since I’ve given mine Maxsea by pitcher the last few seasons I have noticed much stronger rhizomes with increased division / sideshoot production and overall growth rate *almost* as good as an average flava.

[meizzwang]

Mother plants are starting to crack. Not too shabby for new traps! Darker colors set in as the traps age. Photos taken 4/15/19:

[sarraceniahunter]

I just received my very 1st Flava or. IbV today, can't wait to get home and pot it up!

[sidorian]

sarraceniahunter  you're in for a treat, especially a year down the road

[nevermore]

Ahh that's nice. Did you have this guy in your greenhouse starting early?

[sidorian]

May 1, 2019 10:01:32 GMT -5 nevermore said:

Ahh that's nice. Did you have this guy in your greenhouse starting early?

Yup, most of my flava collection was in the greenhouse until this week.  The greenhouse adds about a month on either side for most of the sarracenia I find.

[meizzwang]

Those bulloch Co, GA genes are hard to beat! Maybe some of the outlaw clones comes close, but can the average grower get them to look jaw dropping in cultivation? I hope so! There are probably genotypes out there that will be "easy to vein up," time will tell...

After growing out so many different ornata clones, I always go back to the bulloch Co, GA original genetics with awe. Can we really make something better than improved black veins? For sure it's possible, but it's going to take a lot of trial and error to find the right "recipe." I've tried so many different ornata crosses, most of which never ended up getting documented on this forum because they went to the compost pile before there was a chance to talk about them. You could always get lucky and produce a winner cross, and maybe you or I will get lucky in the near future and create something next level ridiculous!

well, that's some food for though, now here's a feast for the eyes...well, it's more like an appetizer, since the traps haven't really colored up yet when these pics were taken:

[calen]

IBV is far superior to the originals when it comes to forming impressive specimen clumps. I've had to divide mine a few times to keep it in check but it just keeps multiplying! Still at the red veins stage, but the squid ink will gradually come on over the next couple weeks. 
Untitled by Calen Hall, on Flickr
Untitled by Calen Hall, on Flickr

[meizzwang]

Even small, established divisions of improved black veins look impressive! Pics taken 9/18/19:

[kirkauburn]

Fantastic clone Mike! One of the things I really love about this clone - it seems to much more reliably put out nice pitchers throughout the entire season, I even seem to have got a “fall flush” from mine this year! Mine is still a relatively young plant, although it has grown very quickly and looks like it should flower next spring for me.

Here are the most recent shots of mine - thanks again Mike!

[meizzwang]

Thanks for sharing Kirkauburn! That's good to know that you also get late summer/ fall pitchers as well, they consistently produce all season long here, which is very unusual for flavas.

[leo]

Here's mine looks better in the fall hehe 

Flava Ornata IBV by Leonardo GzzRdz, en Flickr

Flava Ornata IBV by Leonardo GzzRdz, en Flickr

[meizzwang]

Wow, great job Leo!

[sidorian]

It is obvious from the performance of this division that a lot of work was put in my meizzwang to find the right features.  Multiple pitchers show up at the same time, it stays relatively compact and is one of the first to open up.  The flowers opened at almost the same time and also stay compact.  As always with Sarracenia, there are probably some environmental influences, but I could easily see this plant being the go-to flava cultivar in any garden center.

[meizzwang]

Here's the "F-3" version, which is technically not the right term, but I'm not sure there is a term for what was done to make this plant. To recap, one of the original black veined plants was crossed to S. flava var. ornata gulf Coast, FL. The best individual from that batch was then back-crossed to a different black veined clone. From that batch, I again selected the very best individual and crossed it with a 3rd, original clone of the black veined flava, so all in all, this "F-3" version contains genetics from 3 different original black veined clones.

With the right environment, these can look even more intensely veined, but at this point, the F3 version, even when not in the best of conditions like in the pictures below, is quite impressive. Pics taken 6/1/20: