RED flavas in the wild, NW Florida: the great debate
Oct 22, 2013 23:30:28 GMT -5
Joanne, corey216, and 2 more like this
Post by meizzwang on Oct 22, 2013 23:30:28 GMT -5
Several populations of "red flavas" exist in northwestern Florida: Liberty Co, Bay Co, Walton Co, Okaloosa Co, and Santa Rosa Co, FL (they probably are found in other counties as well). Flavas with red bodies and green lids are considered S. flava var. rubricorpora, whereas flavas with solid red bodies are considered S. flava var. atropurpurea.
In Liberty Co and Bay Co, there are large populations of S. flava var. rubricorpora, but arguably, some consider individuals in these populations S. flava var. atropurpurea because at the time they were seen, the plant was solid red. Trouble is, in cultivation, amongst many different growers, it has been shown that many plants labeled "atropurpurea" start off with a green lid, and as the pitcher ages, the entire trap turns solid red. Are these rubricorporas, or are these atropurpureas?
Interestingly enough, in Okaloosa Co, FL and Santa Rosa Co, FL, there are both plants that resemble S. flava var. rubricorpora and S. flava var. atropurpurea. The S. flava var. atropurpureas from these sites start off solid red. However, plants from these sites strongly resemble the rare S. flava var. atropurpurea found in the Carolinas. Do these "atropurpureas" from Okaloosa Co and Santa Rosa Co, FL occur naturally, or did someone plant them at these sites?
In Santa Rosa Co, FL, Damon, Axel and I visited 2 different sites that were roughly 20 miles away from each other (ie.not within a reasonable distance to hybridize with each other) and we found red plants at both of these sites!
Here's site #1 in santa Rosa Co, FL. This is an old pitcher from the summer, and the lid is still green, while the body is solid red. Arguably, this can be considered S. flava var. rubricorpora (although, genetically, I think this is plant is very different from the bay co and liberty co plants):
Another shot:
Close up of the lid:
Same site, baby "S. flava var. rubricorpora" plant:
Now, let's go 20 miles away to site #2, and here we have what appears to be S. flava var. atorpurpurea. Was the lid on this plant green before it turned solid red? I don't know, but my gut says no:
Same plant, back view:
This one seems to be back-crossed with S. flava var. rugelii:
And at this same site, we found S. x catesbaei: notice the strong resemblance in color. Hmmmmmm:
A group of S. flava var. "atropurpureas" with S. flava var. rugeliis:
Now, let's take a tour of the famous site in Okaloosa Co, FL, where there's a very large S. flava var. atropurpurea population. Notice I'm using the word "atropurpurea" here with confidence: These plants have been verified to produce solid red lids on brand new pitchers. Here's a distant view of the largest population of S. flava var. atropurpureas in this area:
Breath-taking beauty!
Now, here we are, at the same site in okaloosa Co, FL, with this suspicious looking plant:
. Some might call the plant above S. flava var. cuprea, although it looks quite different from the verified cupreas of the Carolinas. I won't go into details about the S. flava var. cuprea that was found by sunbelle near panama City. For more details, check out this thread: sarracenia.proboards.com/thread/873/newly-registered-cultivar-atropurpurea-rubricorp?page=4&scrollTo=4040
And what do we have here? Oh yes, at this "atropurpurea" site in Okaloosa Co, FL, there's what appears to be a S. flava var. rubricorpora. This leads me to believe that rubricorporas in Bay Co and Liberty Co are of hybrid origin, but they stabilized (sorta) over time:
Another shot, and remember, these are old pitchers:
But let's go back to the atropurpureas at okaloosa Co, FL because they're just so amazing:
We weren't there at the best time, but they were still amazing:
More shots of the atropurpureas:
Damon in the background to give you scale:
This was "across the street" in another nearby field:
Growing amonst S. flava var. rugeliis (which, by the way, were jaw dropping as well):
Sorry, I'm no professional photographer:
stunning field:
This site is well maintained and burned regularly:
What do you get when the reds backcross with the rugeliis? Monsters:
crazy, amazing monsters:
or weird looking ones:
Now when I say monster, I mean it: this thing is gigantic:
"hey Damon, yeah, hold it right there-perfect!":
Or even better yet, when you back-cross S. flava var. atropurpureas with S. flava var. rugelii, you get S. flava var. ornatas:
S. flava var. ornata:
These ornatas look like watered down S. flava var. atropurpureas, except they're drop dead beautiful:
S. flava var. ornata:
another shot of the ornatas:
And just for the sake of comparison, here's a fall pitcher of S. flava var. rubricorpora in situ in Liberty Co, FL. Notice how the lid is still green:
At this same liberty Co, FL site, there are also ornatas, but look how different they are from the ones above:
And here's what I believe to be S. flava var. rubricorpora from Bay Co, FL. These are old traps that have turned solid red, but were green when they first opened:
And an overview of the S. flava var. rubricorpora population. Many will argue these are atropurpureas:
Now with my slanted opinions, let the debates begin, haha!
In Liberty Co and Bay Co, there are large populations of S. flava var. rubricorpora, but arguably, some consider individuals in these populations S. flava var. atropurpurea because at the time they were seen, the plant was solid red. Trouble is, in cultivation, amongst many different growers, it has been shown that many plants labeled "atropurpurea" start off with a green lid, and as the pitcher ages, the entire trap turns solid red. Are these rubricorporas, or are these atropurpureas?
Interestingly enough, in Okaloosa Co, FL and Santa Rosa Co, FL, there are both plants that resemble S. flava var. rubricorpora and S. flava var. atropurpurea. The S. flava var. atropurpureas from these sites start off solid red. However, plants from these sites strongly resemble the rare S. flava var. atropurpurea found in the Carolinas. Do these "atropurpureas" from Okaloosa Co and Santa Rosa Co, FL occur naturally, or did someone plant them at these sites?
In Santa Rosa Co, FL, Damon, Axel and I visited 2 different sites that were roughly 20 miles away from each other (ie.not within a reasonable distance to hybridize with each other) and we found red plants at both of these sites!
Here's site #1 in santa Rosa Co, FL. This is an old pitcher from the summer, and the lid is still green, while the body is solid red. Arguably, this can be considered S. flava var. rubricorpora (although, genetically, I think this is plant is very different from the bay co and liberty co plants):
Another shot:
Close up of the lid:
Same site, baby "S. flava var. rubricorpora" plant:
Now, let's go 20 miles away to site #2, and here we have what appears to be S. flava var. atorpurpurea. Was the lid on this plant green before it turned solid red? I don't know, but my gut says no:
Same plant, back view:
This one seems to be back-crossed with S. flava var. rugelii:
And at this same site, we found S. x catesbaei: notice the strong resemblance in color. Hmmmmmm:
A group of S. flava var. "atropurpureas" with S. flava var. rugeliis:
Now, let's take a tour of the famous site in Okaloosa Co, FL, where there's a very large S. flava var. atropurpurea population. Notice I'm using the word "atropurpurea" here with confidence: These plants have been verified to produce solid red lids on brand new pitchers. Here's a distant view of the largest population of S. flava var. atropurpureas in this area:
Breath-taking beauty!
Now, here we are, at the same site in okaloosa Co, FL, with this suspicious looking plant:
. Some might call the plant above S. flava var. cuprea, although it looks quite different from the verified cupreas of the Carolinas. I won't go into details about the S. flava var. cuprea that was found by sunbelle near panama City. For more details, check out this thread: sarracenia.proboards.com/thread/873/newly-registered-cultivar-atropurpurea-rubricorp?page=4&scrollTo=4040
And what do we have here? Oh yes, at this "atropurpurea" site in Okaloosa Co, FL, there's what appears to be a S. flava var. rubricorpora. This leads me to believe that rubricorporas in Bay Co and Liberty Co are of hybrid origin, but they stabilized (sorta) over time:
Another shot, and remember, these are old pitchers:
But let's go back to the atropurpureas at okaloosa Co, FL because they're just so amazing:
We weren't there at the best time, but they were still amazing:
More shots of the atropurpureas:
Damon in the background to give you scale:
This was "across the street" in another nearby field:
Growing amonst S. flava var. rugeliis (which, by the way, were jaw dropping as well):
Sorry, I'm no professional photographer:
stunning field:
This site is well maintained and burned regularly:
What do you get when the reds backcross with the rugeliis? Monsters:
crazy, amazing monsters:
or weird looking ones:
Now when I say monster, I mean it: this thing is gigantic:
"hey Damon, yeah, hold it right there-perfect!":
Or even better yet, when you back-cross S. flava var. atropurpureas with S. flava var. rugelii, you get S. flava var. ornatas:
S. flava var. ornata:
These ornatas look like watered down S. flava var. atropurpureas, except they're drop dead beautiful:
S. flava var. ornata:
another shot of the ornatas:
And just for the sake of comparison, here's a fall pitcher of S. flava var. rubricorpora in situ in Liberty Co, FL. Notice how the lid is still green:
At this same liberty Co, FL site, there are also ornatas, but look how different they are from the ones above:
And here's what I believe to be S. flava var. rubricorpora from Bay Co, FL. These are old traps that have turned solid red, but were green when they first opened:
And an overview of the S. flava var. rubricorpora population. Many will argue these are atropurpureas:
Now with my slanted opinions, let the debates begin, haha!